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@feelingverylow I support you in your desire to come clean. I am not a psychic, and of course I cannot predict that will happen in your life, but what I CAN tell you as a Wayward Spouse is that I never realized the sheer weight I was carrying until I disclosed. I wrestled with whether I was doing this for me instead of my BH, but the fact is I am doing it for BOTH of us. We are touch and go at the moment, and we have not hit the awful part yet where he is angry and bitter, but I know it is coming once he gets over the initial shock and the knowledge that this marriage could end. There are no rules or a once size fits all when it comes to disclosure, but the comments and criticisms I got about "trickle truthing" really helped me. I finally disclosed as much as I could in one session, and we are continuing in this vein. We are talking. My BH has surprised me by being receptive to the "why's" behind the LTA, and he has been brave enough to acknowledge his part in some of our marital issues. That said, I am adamant about reminding him that my apology, my remorse and my desire to heal what I have broken all fall on ME and not him. Nothing he did makes what I did ok. Nothing.

There is a difference between a reason, an excuse and a justification. If you can express your remorse and stay away from language that makes any of what you did your spouse's fault, you will do better than some who can't stay away from talking that way. As far as how and what you say, that will all be up to you. But I support you and I know it is scary and difficult and all consuming. One thing I will not do is paint every WS as a monster. The people on this forum are real people. Flesh and blood. Human. Flawed. Not two dimensional.To that end I believe we should show grace and listen to both those who have transgressed AND those who have been betrayed in an effort to learn how this insanity of infidelity happens, and how we can grow and heal from it, no matter which corner we are standing in. I send you courage and support, and I promise you are not your worst day or your worst action .... you are only what you do next. That means you can change and be better every day. Be prepared for pain, but hope for relief and release and forgiveness. No matter what happens do your best. When the weight of this secret is lifted from your shoulders, it may be replaced by an even heavier weight of sorrow and guilt. That's ok. In time you will feel lighter because you came clean, and your spouse will have the information they are entitled to having.

Good luck, and thank you for supporting me and for saying such kind things. I do not feel strong or brave ... I feel desperate. I suppose all three can be true. Either way, if I have helped you in any way to summon up some courage, then good for you! You can do this.

[This message edited by dlvp at 6:30 AM, Friday, August 8th]

Thanks for your words of encouragement and apologies if I hijacked your thread. One of the big struggles I have is believing that disclosing will help with the shame spiral I am in perpetually. My therapist is adamant in her belief that to 50% of the weight will feel lifted after disclosure. Many of my sleepless nights (been up since 2:00 am today) are consumed by the ruminating thoughts and I keep getting stuck thinking that although the shame is due to the infidelity and subsequent dishonesty by omission, the weight is primarily due to the infidelity and disclosing does nothing to alleviate that.

I am encouraged when I read experiences like yours where disclosing was hard, but helped. I have lied to myself for 20+ years thinking not disclosing was protecting my wife, but know the only path forward is honesty. All of the research and work I have been doing to get to this pointv tells me that although this will crush my wife that disclosing is the right thing to do regardless of the outcome.

In my last therapy session we talked about what was happening when the affair took place. I look at myself 20 years ago and can barely recognize who I was. I would give all my wealth to have a time machine so I could go back and tell myself the outcome of the choices I was going to make. My therapist reinforced that we are not defined by our worst choices, but that just is not landing right now as I feel like any good I have done is like a drop in the tainted ocean from infidelity.

One of my main objectives in therapy is to be at a place where I can disclose and be helpful in her healing. I need to get to the point where I am not focused on the shame I feel. One of the impacts of carrying this for so long is that I feel like it is part of my DNA now. Someone who is disclosing an affair that has just ended might find comfort when people say it will get better over time. I need to remind myself that although the affair ended 20 years ago, time has not been able to help me because I tried to bury everything thinking I could take it to my grave without understanding the toll it would take.

Sorry for the hijack. I am on this site and in the relevant reddit forums almost every day. I worry at times this might be a form of pain shopping as I read the brutal experiences from BSs, but I have also found support and community with others that sadly have shared life experiences.

[This message edited by feelingverylow at 8:53 PM, Friday, August 8th]

Dlvp and FVL

Your conversations have been very helpful for me as a BS who found out 42 yrs later. The sharing of your deepest thoughts and struggles echo some of the things my WH has tried to communicate to me. I can hear your pain, your disgust and self loathing but I can also feel the love you have for your spouse. The desire to be accountable and honest.

I have asked myself often if I would rather have not known and can now honestly say that even with all the misery that has come from his confessions that I am glad I know. I truly believe my H did not confess to lessen his guilt(BTW it doesn't) I do believe he did it for us. Yes, it does move the plate of sh*t over to my side of the table and let me tell you it doesn't taste good. But it does open up a whole new world for the two of us going forward. He is a changed man. Overnight. Lighter, humbler, connected. One that I can work with.

I love the man. Whether I'm with him or not, I care about him. His shame and guilt altered our entire marriage. Don't think you're protecting anyone by not being honest. The distance created by carrying such an awful secret will take a toll. Come clean. Give it your best and accept your consequences.

So thank you both for your honesty. I wish you both the best.

disclosing is the right thing to do regardless of the outcome

This. The reclamation of integrity and the cessation of deceit is the highest ideal. This applies to both situations.

Trumansworld

Your post really impacted me. Thank you.

One of my main objectives in therapy is to be at a place where I can disclose and be helpful in her healing.

How do you envision being helpful in her healing?

I ask because you can't do much except support your partner in their healing. You do that by being yourself. Maybe she'll leave; maybe she'll stay; but if you're honest about yourself (and you're a lot more than a WS), you'll give her the info she needs to make a good decision for herself.

R is hard work, but it's a bit easier if both of you want the prize, which to me is worth the effort. What you can do, whether you D or R, is close up some of your vulnerability to cheating. You can change yourself from cheater to good partner.

I generally think sooner is better for revealing an A, but I also think coming clean id much better face-to-face than through electronic media, so I understand your waiting a month.

My W came clean when she revealed her A. I got more details during my months of interrogation, but the outline I got in the first few minutes was never contradicted. Her honesty was a very strong signal, IMO, that she would do the work she needed to do to R.

Be honest. You've got nothing to lose but illusions.

I am spending the next few therapy sessions trying to game tree what I will do depending on how my wife reacts and how I can best support her. This is partly for me as I do better when I have a plan with contingencies, but the main goal is to ensure I can be supportive if that is what she wants.

I am going to start with total transparency. That may seem obvious especially for an affair that ended 20+ years ago, but as I have been reminded on this forum that may not be as easy as it sounds if she wants to have details that are uncomfortable to reveal. I have always had difficulty seeing people I care about in pain and that often leads to me trying to "fix" whatever is the source. In this case the source is me and my instinct knowing a detail might cause additional hurt would be to minimize. I have written down everything I can remember about the affair including details that were uncomfortable for me and that I had to really spend time processing just to avoid blocking them out. My therapist will help with a full disclosure if that is something my wife wants and we will do it in a session. The practice often works with sex addicts, but has modified the disclosure approach for my situation.

I will be there to validate her pain and hold space if she will allow it. I have always been the more emotional of us, but she has never had something like this in her life so I anticipate she will need time and therapy to even start the recovery process. My therapist has colleagues in her practice or referrals for other practices that specialize in betrayal trauma if my wife wants to start IC. I really hope she will, but this is a big unknown for me as she has never really contemplated therapy and might have an aversion to talking to other people about this even in that setting. Regardless, I want to be there in any setting for however long it takes. I tend to want to talk about things much more than she does, but I will never limit how much she wants to discuss or yell or cry without trying to jump to a fix. I hope she takes as much time to process this as she needs and I hope she allows me to take that journey with her.

I will continue to work on myself. One thing I am realizing more is that my childhood had way more trauma than I want to admit. I thought I had processed my dad's infidelity and subsequent abandonment of our family, my mom (who is the best mom and who sacrificed more than I can explain to keep our family moving forward when she could have wilted with the shitty hand my dad dealt her) who remarried a few years later introducing a very tough blended family dynamic, early sexual activity (that I used to chalk up to being a teenage boy, but am understanding why being very sexually active too early creates issues), orientating my career in the pursuit of wealth because money was so tight after the divorce, etc. I originally started therapy thinking it was too prepare for disclosure, but I have lots to continue processing about my infidelity even though it was 20+ years ago. I actually think it is more difficult to process because it has festered for so long.

My journey is a bit different than some as my wife does not need to worry that the affair is still happening / that I am still in contact with the AP (we have had no contact in 20+ years); however, I will need to rebuild trust the same way any Wayward does.

My two biggest worries (that are ironically on the opposite ends of the spectrum) are 1) she will want to rug sweep rather than process the trauma or 2) the infidelity and not disclosing for so long will be too much to want to continue. I want to support her however she needs, but realize that choice is hers and I may not be part of her healing.

[This message edited by feelingverylow at 1:51 PM, Monday, August 11th]

My therapist has colleagues in her practice or referrals for other practices that specialize in betrayal trauma if my wife wants to start IC. I really hope she will, but this is a big unknown for me as she has never really contemplated therapy and might have an aversion to talking to other people about this even in that setting.

Be very cateful with this fvl. Project nothing. Just let your BS process with no preconceptions or suggested contingency plans as to how she may react.

but realize that choice is hers and I may not be part of her healing.

Exactly. The choice will finally be hers.

Follow through sir.

Update. We are talking for hours every day and this man is showing me a level of grace that I never knew was possible. I stopped the trickle truthing and followed the advice on this forum. Scary and hard, but so worth it to come clean. We are having marathon talks and they happen organically. We are having the kind of talks I dreamed about during the whole 15 years of marriage. The disconnect we were living through is slowly being healed and I know it will take time and lots of tears.

I have maintained NC with the AP and have had to block random social media profiles that have sprung up as he tries in vain to stay connected. First there was a new email address and message (I had to write him a "stay away" message and block that one too). Then there was the suddenly following me on IG and my FB personal and business pages stuff, etc,. Blocked right away as well! I block every time something like this happens. I tell BH everything. We are in full transparency mode now. He knows AP is still obsessed. He says he is more worried about the AP finding a way to get to me somehow and wear me down, than he is that I will be the one to reverse course. I keep reminding him that it is on me to do what is right, and that I am the one who broke our vows. He knows that but right now he thinks the AP has a lot of power over me. Why wouldn't he? He is waiting for the other shoe to drop. I feel confident about my future behavior because my fog has finally really lifted, but I understand his fear. We talk about all of it.

In the mean time, I answer questions as they come up. We are battling through the hard and scary conversations, but with kindness and patience. Like when we first fell in love. It astounds me that we are able to do this, but it is why we married each other in the first place. That level of connection that somehow got lost. He has acknowledged a lot things about his part in the problems in our marriage, but I am constantly reminding him that my betrayal has no excuses. I am lifting him up and reassuring him in every way I can, but also giving him space to process everything.

I keep waiting for the big boom to come where he changes his mind about reconciliation and decides he can't take it, but after 30 years of friendship and 15 years of that time being in a marriage, he has decided that I and we are worth it. I am humbled beyond words, and even though I struggle with believing that I deserve any kind of forgiveness or redemption, I am trying to do as he asks and "take the wins" when he offers them to me.

I start back with IC next week so that I don't overwhelm him with my own journey of guilt and shame, but the stuff that is coming about about the ASSUMPTIONS we have both been making for years is jaw dropping. The stuff about our childhood and our patterns could be a movie. All of it is fascinating, terrible, beautiful and awful depending on what chapter of our stories we touch. The consistent thing is the love we feel for each other. It amazes me. We have drawn up many rules and boundaries for the new normal, and he too is waiting for everything to fall apart again in spite of these new agreements. I get it. We are both cautiously optimistic and scare, but we're doing this thing.

All of this is before we have even started with MC. Our night time talks sound like there is counselor in the room ... it is so odd. We are finally listening to each other. I know this is all precarious and that everything could turn on a dime, but I am sticking to what I said I would do, and I am walking through a new and surreal life with no secrets. It feels like I am on Mars after 15 years of a double life. My therapist says my selves are "integrating." All I know is things are better, and I am taking it one day at a time. Thanks to all who have weighed in. Not one comment has been unhelpful, and I am grateful to be here.

[This message edited by dlvp at 6:55 PM, Tuesday, August 19th]

Thanks for the update!

That sounds like good news to me. Good luck going through this process.

You sound committed this time. I went back and read some of your initial posts, and, frankly, the way you spoke then is remarkably similar to now. I can see why he doubts your capability to resist. I mean, 15 years is a very long time.
Once the enthusiasm for trying to be a good partner wears off, how do you plan to stay committed?

15 years is a very long time.

And if you have been on again/off again, former LTAP will think it only a matter of time.

However, for not a lot of money in the greater scheme of things, you can have an attorney send a Cease & Desist letter. If you are serious about NC and recommitting to your marriage, I highly recommend this.

Not to T/J but my WH had to do this when LTAP just wouldn't stay gone. She too would create fake profiles on various platforms to reach out. The letter also included this practice as well and informing her this practice is a form of Cyber Stalking which, is illegal. If he continues to attempt to reach out after having received such a letter [we had ours overnighted and Certified Restricted as well as having a copy sent also overnighted and Certified/Restricted to OBS] then you are into legal action territory.

[This message edited by Chaos at 1:32 AM, Friday, August 22nd]

@1994 the difference this time is that my husband is actually a part of the recovery and, for the first time in our marriage, he is truly talking to me. We have never worked on our marriage together like this before, and he has never shared himself with me in the way he is now. There are NO excuses for what I did, but there were very real circumstances that led up to my terrible decision, and we have both decided to unpack all of it. The way we are communicating and handling each other now is brand new. It feels like a watershed moment where we both realized that we had lost who we were long before the affair, even before we were married. The current level of communication is breathtaking ... It is like we are seeing and hearing each other for the first time. Seeing the whole person, not just the person as "my spouse" ... we are listening, crying, yelling, laughing ... it isn't all rainbows and sunsets. He is very angry. Of course. But he is TALKING for the first time EVER, and I am listening to him in a way I never did before.

How to stay committed? Keep talking, start MC, develop new habits, create accountability goals that we can track ... we never did any of this before. We just moved on with our heads down. It was ridiculous.

We have created some routines including daily talks before the day starts, walks, exercising together, adhering to a variety of boundaries, turning our devices off by a certain time, nightly talks before we sleep, GPS tracking (we already had that but he never paid attention to it - he will now), allowing any and all questions, keeping him in the loop about ANY attempts by the AP to contact me in anyway .... we are working on it every day. We have check ins. We talk all the time. It is all either of us had dreamed of in the first place, and all we had wanted really, but it arrived at a terrible price and we are focused on repairing and moving forward.

I want to be clear: there is no moral equivalent for what I did. I own my choices completely. But the affair didn’t happen in a vacuum. Our marriage was deeply troubled from the beginning. Almost immediately after we were married, my husband disconnected emotionally. He became guarded, addicted to work and poker, and unable to engage in meaningful conversations or intimacy with me. I was miserable and lonely, constantly asking for connection that never came. Eventually, we were like two robots living together, and I began to normalize that distance. I resorted to my own set of workaholic habits. I allowed him to avoid, and then I would avoid as well. I gave up on intimacy completely. Until I couldn't anymore. I never imagined myself as someone who could cheat. I had always judged people who did. And yet in my weakness and unhappiness, I crossed a line. That is on me. 100%.

After my first disclosure, I made many changes. I changed jobs, blocked the AP, apologized daily, and was faithful and remorseful. But nothing changed on his end. He refused marriage counseling, and I arrogantly thought I could repair everything alone. I carried the weight by myself, while he stuffed things down and avoided them. This was not new to the A. It is how he handled any kind of conflict. I responded with anger and resentment. We were a mess. I eventually relapsed when the AP resurfaced. I was like an addict, trying to stop on my own many times, but I couldn’t escape the cycle while our marriage remained broken and disconnected.

What makes this different now is that my husband is finally part of the process. He knows everything, and I am not hiding anything anymore. For the first time, he is opening up, talking, and being present with me. We are working together instead of me trying to do all the heavy lifting by myself. This isn’t just about me deciding to be a good partner; it’s also about him choosing to be a good partner too. It’s about both of us acknowledging the years of distance, addictions, and communication failures we allowed to fester, and finally having the courage to face them head-on.

Reconciliation can only work if both people change at a fundamental level. This time, it’s not just me apologizing, changing my behavior and hoping he’ll heal. It’s both of us committing to real change, real accountability, and real connection. That’s why this time is different.

[This message edited by dlvp at 6:21 AM, Friday, August 22nd]

@Chaos you are spot on. We have been discussing those very topics. Right now he wants to tell the AP's wife. (He thinks that will stop everything or it will at least give her some agency.) I told him I will support him in whatever he wants to do.

I think his BS already knows or suspects since unlike us, they have been through this with multiple affairs he had over the years long before he met me. (Yes, I ignored all of this ... stupid I know!) For me this was my first and only affair .... but it lasted for years. For them it is part of their dynamic and I am not sure how it would play out.

At any rate, I already told the AP that this was a possibility (his wife finding out) when I sent the "back off" email reply after he broke NC from the alias email profile. My BH read the email and approved the content. But ... he thinks the AP will never stop and he thinks it is going to get ugly. On top of everything else, I am somewhat of a public figure and local celebrity so things may get really crazy if the AP's wife is told. I have to deal with it if that happens. We both will.

So yes we are looking at legal options if it comes to that. So far no cyber stalking since I sent the back off email, unless he has profiles under different fake names. I have thousands of followers so I would not be able to tell. Nonetheless, we are in "see something, say something" mode .... if I see anything online I am going straight to my husband. If the AP calls we are putting it on speaker with my husband in the room. I am not playing with this anymore and do not want to give the AP any more of my power or take away my husband's agency a second longer. We are all in now. I messed up. It is my job to clean up. Period.

Ive read your updates and on its face, it looks like a positive direction has been established. If he is willing to work toward R in light of the sheer volume of deceit and betrayal and you want the same, well, all you can do is keep trying with maximum effort. I do think you need to escalate your efforts in shielding you and your husband from the ahole AP. I think you may have the male version of a "bunny boiler" on your hands. Escalating may include changing your phone number and email address(es). Discontinuing and deleting online content. Having an attorney write and send a cease and desist letter demanding he stop the harrassment or face legal ramifications like a restraining order. I am reminded of Sean Connery's iconic line in The Untouchables "What are you prepared to do?!"

As to your betrayed husband, I kind of wish he were here on SI too so we could support him. If he ever did so, I can tell you Id test his resolve to R with you by encouraging him to read extensively in the healing library, the accounts of many other BHs and outsude references such as "No More Mr Nice Guy", "The Way of The Superior Man" and another reference that I have been warned not to post that would most assuredly make him think very very hard about proceeding. This would not be to dissuade but to break through any illusions about what this will entail in the long run and to bolster the inevitable self worth issues that he is facing/will face after such a long betrayal. I personally wonder if he is in the emotional equivalent of being punch drunk. Truth is, this may be the longest spate of marital treason Ive ever read with both parties still desiring to attempt R.

If after reading and weighing it thoroughly, he wanted to continue, well, my incredulity aside, nothing is impossible.

As to your "notorierty", not sure what that has to do with helping your H heal outside of complicating matters.

Again I ask you, "What are you prepared to do?"

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:51 PM, Friday, August 22nd]

DobleTraicion

I have tried not to be defensive on this forum. I have come here to get feedback and advice from WS and BS perspectives and to keep myself accountable. I have laid myself bare and am continuing to do so with my BH and here. Your incredulity is understandable. I don't resent it, but I also will not let it deter me or let it send me into a downward spiral of despair and peesimissim. I am not naive to what lies ahead, and my BH is not naive either about it either. We talk about the rollercoaster every day. It is not all happy joy joy time. Far from it.

I have written several times about what I am prepared to do and I am doing it. The answer? Whatever it takes. Last night (before reading your recent comment)I encouraged my BH to join this forum and he is thinking about it. I have read some of the responses here to him and he can log on to my account any time. That is part of my effort to be transparent. I want to make sure he does not think I am on here to make excuses or to get out of things by spinning my own dishonest version of what I did. I am not lying on here. I am not lying to him anymore. He is showing me grace now. I am showing him grace now. Yes it may change, but time will tell, and as I have written multiple times, I am ready to face whatever wind blows my way, which includes divorce if that is where this ends up.

Bottom line is that you don't know either of us or what we are made of. You only know my story from my perspective. I get it. The "notoriety" comment feels snarky to me. Perhaps you think I am full of myself and bragging. Far from it. I am an insecure mess, but the fact is I am indeed a known person in our community as is he. I am not saying it helps his healing. I am saying the opposite .... it DOES complicate things because if the AP's BS goes public it will be all over social media and I am concerned about how this will effect my BH's already fragile ego (my fault) and his need for privacy. Again, I was not bragging. I know the A is my fault and that I created this situation. I am not sure how to convince you or anyone else that I am trying to be accountable and honest now, but in the end all that matters is how my BH sees it and how it affects him. I don't give a crap about my reputation or being publicly shamed. It isn't about me and that would be a deserved consequence anyway, but I a concerned for my spouse. That is all I am saying about the notoriety factor.

Last thing is this. I have read about 30 and 40 year betrayals on this forum, some of which are still happening. I have read even in the comments about people who have achieved R after decades of A's, and many more who of have not. I understand your punch drunk comments. I really do. But what am I to do? What are we to do? We are trying, we are hopeful, and we are awake and fully aware of the odds against us. Deep down I have many doubts and his doubts are of course right here on the surface. But still we are trying. We believe we are worth it. If nothing else we are facing our pasts and talking about them. We are survivors. I survived horrible child abuse and losing my first spouse to cancer at a young age and much much more. He has survived things he is only now talking about. We are finally TALKING. About all of it. And you know what? We are still here, still alive, and still willing to try. And I am still willing to stay on here and take whatever anyone throws at me because it is worth it to keep reading and learning. I will share the resources you mentioned with my BH. "No More Mr Nice Guy", "The Way of The Superior Man" (and the one you can't mention if you dm me - if that is allowed.) All I can do is continue on this path with eyes wide open. I am not minimizing a thing. But I am also not running anymore and neither is he.

What am I prepared to do? Atone, repair, stay transparent, take legal steps to protect both of us from the AP, leave if he asks me to, stay if he asks me to, stay in therapy, stay on this forum, make zero excuses, change years of patterns to the best of my ability by engaging in the way I am now, and ultimately accept whatever happens and continue to try to live as fully as I can. The anonymity factor of this forum is part of what drew me here. I am not going anywhere. I am hoping my BH joins as well but I cannot force him. So your incredulity is accepted, understood but not absorbed or taken on. I will fight for this marriage till I die, because he is worth it and we are worth it. I often used to consider taking my life. Now I have decided to change it. And he has decided to change his. Time will tell. Thank you for weighing in.

M

I hear you on the local celerity thing. My WH is one as well. And thus, me as well to some level. Honestly, that should not factor at all. The chips will have to fall where they may.

I'm a fan of exposure. I delayed for many reasons on DDay1. All it got me is subsequent DDays. After I exposed to OBS [and sent him every shred of evidence I had spanning several years at his request] LTAP backed off for a while. Until she didn't. And we had to take legal action. WH LTA spanned years. And LTAP did not want to let go of her fun. Somewhere along the line she caught feelings [and that made me throw up in my mouth a bit]. I still think she's lurking and watching. I will always feel stalked. Because for the longest time I was.

You can't let your fear of exposure paralyze you from doing the right thing. If you are seriously concerned about retribution contact your local precinct for advise. If you see or feel anything off - ask their advice. Again, not to T/J, but been there/done that myself with this LTAP.

I want to reply to a few specific things:

If I see anything online I am going straight to my husband.

Good. And do NOT destroy any evidence. Do NOT respond.

If the AP calls we are putting it on speaker with my husband in the room.

IMHO bad move. An answer of that call is a response and sends a message you can be worn down. You need to let it go - ignore/decline. If there is a voice mail save it and contact an attorney for a Cease & Desist. If it in anyway could be conceived as a threat go to your local precinct.

Gently, your LTAP had 15 years. This is not something that will be given up easily on their part sadly. They will fight for you - even if it is just for the illusion of being your on the side thrill.

I am not playing with this anymore and do not want to give the AP any more of my power or take away my husband's agency a second longer. We are all in now.

Good.

I messed up. It is my job to clean up. Period.

Yes. It is. And good on you for being honest with yourself about it.

@Chaos

IMHO bad move. An answer of that call is a response and sends a message you can be worn down. You need to let it go - ignore/decline. If there is a voice mail save it and contact an attorney for a Cease & Desist. If it in anyway could be conceived as a threat go to your local precinct.

Gently, your LTAP had 15 years. This is not something that will be given up easily on their part sadly. They will fight for you - even if it is just for the illusion of being your on the side thrill.

Advice received and SO appreciated!!!! Your perspective is really helpful. Man! Thank you.

dlvp

Reading through your messages I am impressed at your level of commitment, and fortitude. It's impressive to be able to throw yourself out there like this and accept full responsibility, the harder comments, and take advice given. Thats pretty awesome. Keep going!

One caution I want to share though. This comment gave me pause:

Reconciliation can only work if both people change at a fundamental level. This time, it’s not just me apologizing, changing my behavior and hoping he’ll heal. It’s both of us committing to real change, real accountability, and real connection. That’s why this time is different.

On D-day my WW was fully prepared for what was about to happen - or she thought she was. She had seen her AP go through this just a month prior, had talked to him about how to handle it with me, had done a bunch of research, and consumed a bunch of Ester Perel's stuff. In fact one of her videos about building a new marriage is what she shared with me in the early days. That was the attitude she took from day one, and for many months after "we need to fix this marriage", it's even still there sometimes today.

She aggressively tried to get me to change the things in our marriage she blamed for causing her affair, or anything she was unhappy with. I was so traumatized and shocked that I accepted her blame. I was in full marriage repair mode. Her view was that I "contributed to the cracks in our marriage that led to her affair", and I bought into that line of thinking, and started working to "fix" myself so she wouldn't leave me for him.

I look back on that time and realize it was all BS. This was her way of shirking responsibility for her choices. If I could go back in time and put me of today in my body back then, I would handle things VERY differently.

So my caution is this: he might be in "marriage fix it mode" because of the shock and trauma of the revelation like many BS's are in the early days, and you might still be a little in "you caused me to do this" mode.

Not saying you are in that mode. I just know my wife kept saying things like "I take 100% responsibility for my affair, but you need to take responsibility your part in our fractured marriage that led to me being vulnerable to an affair". Which is just a round about way of blaming her choices on me.

Just cautioning you to watch out for that, and watch out for him. Talk about why you did it, your reasons, but not in a "you caused this" way. If you want to build a new marriage, focus on behaviors moving forward. Communicate how you want him to change in the now.

This time, it’s not just me apologizing, changing my behavior and hoping he’ll heal.

You can and should be communicating things you want to see change. Just be very careful to not do it in a blamey way.

Just cautioning you to watch out for that, and watch out for him. Talk about why you did it, your reasons, but not in a "you caused this" way. If you want to build a new marriage, focus on behaviors moving forward. Communicate how you want him to change in the now.

@Theevent your take is exactly where I am at. I am being so careful about this. It may not sound like it here but I really am. When he starts saying "Some of it is my fault" I tell him no it is not. The decision to have an affair was mine and mine alone. Regardless of the why or how, the A is on me. When he brings up his past behavior I try to be gentle and listen, but I do not justify. If anything I am the one pounding it into the ground that I am the guilty party and he is the victim of this A. We talk about it every day (so far) and it always ends with me telling him something to that effect, and lifting him up. We do both need to change, but I am not going to sit around and blame him for my bad choices. I am counting to try to understand why I did what I did, but in the end it was wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

I do know that we both have to change many things in order to have true R, but that does not give me any kind of pass for the long lasting deceit and double I life I came to lead. There is zero excuse for that, and he deserved better. And I know this and continue to tell him as much.

dlvp

Thanks for the in depth response. As I said before, you really are a tremendous communicator. If your BH has the same accuity, you two may well have what it takes to rebuild as so much of this rises and falls on communication.

I want to address the trauma issue. You know where I stand on the sex abuse occurence(s) in your life. As a Husband and Father of girls (now young women), nothing enrages me more than the thought of sexual/physical abuse. I hope you continue to pursue therapy to help bring peace and healing to this. I truly do. As to loss, you and I share that trauma. If you review the Holmes-Rahe Life Stress Inventory, the loss of a spouse pegs the scale. That too takes years of work to recover from. The dynamics can be very different as to whether or not the loss was sudden, or if it was the result of a long decline due to catastrophic illness but, either way, the psychological-emotional impact is severe. For all of this trauma, I am very sorry. This is a lot to bear up under.

That said, I must admit that at times, I have a bit of a "glass is half empty" view of R attempts. This is something I am trying to recalibrate and at least try to be more neutral on. Could it be because I was on the receiving end of marital treason (first wife with my then best friend) as a young Husband and Father? Sure. Could I have a jaundiced eye because my friend recently took their life over infidelity? Yeh. Most definitely. Am I tough on WS's? Maybe more than some, not as much as others imo.

My "What are you willing to do?" question was really focused on amputating everything having to do with the AP. Taking radical steps to cutting him off entirely. Your BH needs this ahole to be gone. I outlined a few of those actions and, as he seems to be persisting, I encourage you to follow through. Some couples have chosen to relocate entirely to get the fresh start needed.

I do hope your BH opens his own account and starts his own thread. I think itd be helpful. I affirm you passing along those book recommendations to him. Like all BS's, he needs a 1000 cc booster shot of encouragement and reinforced self worth. There are some well documented instances where couples have started threads both here and on like sites that seem to have been beneficial to both of them and there was plenty of tough love to go around. Those threads may be a great resource for you and your BH come to think of it.

As to the length of the affair, yes, you are certainly correct, there have been others that were longer but I think you'd agree that they are outliers. I will not say its impossible or even improbable, but that it will be a steep climb indeed.

As to DMing you,I think you have to have a certain amount of posts before doing so, but I will check.

Keep posting. If he opens his own thread, I hope youll give us a heads up!

ETA: Full disclosure, my own attempt to R with my WW was an abject failure for many reasons so there is that too.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 10:22 PM, Friday, August 22nd]