SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I do agree with you in that if this shyt EVER reared its ugly head in my life again, an exit visa would be dispatched pronto. I do not have it in me to attempt reconciliation ever again. Thankfully, I assess that the probability of that eventuality ever happening again is very very low.

I am in a hundred percent agreement with this as well. I won’t go through it all again, if my husband cheats again, he is out. If I were to do it, I would be out. And If I had a new partner there would be no motivation that there was before- the shared history, our family, and so on to make me want to go through it. I think change is possible but not always on the table.

​Why this line of thinking dragged me into this thread was I feel that categorising cheating as a 'coping mechanism' akin to depression or drug use, we inadvertently strip the cheater of their agency. Depression is something that happens to you; an affair is a series of active, conscious, and deceptive choices.

I didn’t say they weren’t a series of decisions. I hold accountability for what I did.

Drug use is a choice until it isn’t anymore. Same with gambling, alcohol and anything else mentioned. And these things all destroy families and are betrayal to a spouse in some form or another.

What I am talking about is the recovery and healing that makes you a reliable partner. You don’t have to believe that I do have great character. Outside of my affair there really is nothing I can point at that is a huge character flaw. I never had good coping and I do have a history of escapism, but there is nothing else I. My past that you would question my morality over other than premarital sex, but that is not a value I have ever put much stock in. Nor did I expect it of my children.

I also think that if a good character wasn’t my baseline I would not have put forth the effort and vigilance that I have over the last 9 years. I have met many remorseful and unremorseful ws over the years.

[This message edited by hikingout at 11:25 PM, Wednesday, May 6th]

BackFromTheStorm, you said:

I told there’s no causation, but high correlation.

Cheating is one of many coping mechanisms for deep character flaws.
It doesn’t necessarily correlates with lack of morality.

You would be surprised how many cheaters are surprised they ever cheater, because morally they never ever thought they could. But they did.

The mind will go to insane extents to quench the chaos and will justify the unjustifiable if that can give respite.

........just saying things are more complex when emotional chaos is involved

It reminded me of a quote from a pretty well known BH in these parts whose xww could never give a reason for blowing up their marriage via infidelity (he moved straight to divorce after her affair was confirmed and had told her many times over the years of their marriage that he would do just that) where he posted, "Sometimes people just go batshit crazy".

Not exactly a technical term but I thinks its pretty accurate.

Anyone have more vital input pertaining to how you overcame the pain of having loving actions disregarded by your ws prior to and during the affair?

I will say that years of therapy and building an understanding of what it means to be self assured along with healthy self worth as well as clarity as to healthy interdependence opposed to codependence has really helped.

Intervening years and having a faithful, loyal and loving spouse have certainly helped assuaged the pain of that old deep slight.

I do now see how broken my ww was. How insecure. How self insufficient. Sadly, there was nothing I could do to reach her because she couldnt reach herself. She was lost.

I agree with the batshit insanity for one reason.

This is a bit off topic from the normal healing perspective I offer here, but I have the impression you are here from a angle of curiosity rather than pain, so I gladly take the chance to deviate fro, the normal tone.

I saw plenty of cheaters some are friends other acquaintances and of course my wife.

And until a year ago I was at a complete loss for social behaviors like this, I could easily spot, observe but couldn’t understand. I couldn’t understand most behaviors really, I thought I was cynical or socially retarded because I could always read people extremely well but I felt disconnected from empathizing about why would you do or behave like that.

Kind of felt out of place like being a stranger in a room where you can understand what people say but you can’t speak the language.

That was my childhood trauma though, a life lived in dissociation, and now that is gone I can finally see the pieces of the puzzle falling into place.

So I tended to observe 2 kind of people who cheat:

- those who "upgrade"
- those who are batshit insane downgrading

Upgrade in quotes because they still fuck up their lives, but it seems that is in the back of their minds.

So many people of the first group are what I would call "settlers". They get a partner that isn’t really much more than a stepping stone while they keep searching.

This seems to work out for these people because they are insecure and miserable as single, but when they get a partner they seem to get a self worth boost, and they will monkey branch around until they get to the top they can achieve (I don’t think they necessarily sit happily there, but is kind of where they give up and settle).

Having the fallback partner seems to make them more attractive to people they wouldn’t have otherwise feel comfortable to approach.

The other group of behaviors are people who actually get with a good partner, that you’d say is equal or sometimes better than them, the kind of stuff that when you see you think "he/she won the lottery with that partner ". And then they cheat, with trash low value people (I know that is a descriptor for people who are open to cheat and be "the other person ", but not speaking of morals and character flaw here, speaking of the absolute qualities of the person).

The kind of stuff you say "wait a minute, are you retarded?". You know those guys who have a brilliant smart and caring wife who looks like Angelina Jolie? And they cheat on her with Danny De Vito.

Exactly.

(This goes both ways but I suck at popular vips so those are the 2 names I can give a face to, hence is my go to example )

They are both transactional and selfish in my opinion, but they add nuance to this behavior.

They are not also clear cut, usually is a mix of the two. I suppose when they’re in a stable long term relationship they all tend to converge towards the second one.

I am beginning to understand why and how that works, and it has little to do with each individual morality, often is shocking for others to know him/her could do something like infidelity precisely because it’s in dissonance with their overall personality.

It’s a character flaw and the low self worth and seeking validation through people pleasing seems like a common factor that can break the person if some circumstances are aligned.

Oh by the way the first group of behaviors is where most of the people who I judge to be "irredeemable assholes" sit, not all though, only a handful who are embracing this into a conscious calculation and exploitation.